Hi Bob –

Following up and asking for your assistance again:

I have completed the process following your instructions. I ran the skimmer and poly filter for about 3 weeks following the final treatment.

During the course of treatment, I lost numerous fish and my shrimps for unknown reasons. I also lost some coral due to the quarantine cycle process. However, I stayed on course.

I put the my surviving coral (from my QT) back into the main DT after the 3 week polyfilter period. Also, I have slowly added MH lighting at 1 hour per day … leaving the actinic on for about 14 hours each day so as not to shock the coral. Now, most of the corals, including 2 bubbles, a frogspawn, open brain, plate coral, and several others have died within a few days. Just seemed to melt and slime away. Should I also be running activated carbon? Any ideas on the most likely cause of death?

Water parameters are Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite all 0. SG is at 1.024 but it was at 1.027 when I added the coral back in. I immediately reduced the SG through a 30G water change.

Worse, my 4 inch Foxface Lo now has ich  again. He is opening and closing his mouth so I have temporarily added an airstone. The ich was noticed a day after adding the coral back into the tank. It may be important to note that the coral quarantine was fish fallow for the entire 6 week period.

Not sure what the next step should be. Perhaps the food treatment method? If so, do you have a more lay-person friendly recipe? I am not understanding some of the ingredients or instructions from your book. As always, any advice you have would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Kevin.
I’m a little confused by your letter. Let me first say the CP treatment has proved to be the ‘most’ effective treatment for these parasites. So I’m not sure where you went wrong, as the treatment, if properly administered, should have been 100% perfect.

You do realize that CP will kill algae and any corals with zooxanthellae (thats an alga). Therefore if wishing to keep these items healthy, they must not be subjected to CP treatment. That’s of course, where zooxanthellae containing inverts are concerned, if the food CP treatment is used. Anyway, these zooxanthellae containing inverts and algae cannot be subjected to CP. Is that understood?

You say ‘lost numerous fish and my shrimps for unknown reasons. I also lost some coral due to the quarantine cycle process. However, I stayed on course.’ What is it I’m not understanding? Tell exactly what you did with fish and inverts right from the beginning, as I can’t help if I’m guessing at what things happened, where they happened, and when. If possible, tell me step by step what you did right from the time you received my last letter and we’ll go from there.
Bob

On 5/6 I removed all coral in my 300G display and moved them to a quarantine tank. I also disabled my skimmer. Then, I treated 12g CP (in the DT with the fish)

Ammo 0 Nitri 0 Nitra 5

On 5/8 I repeated the dose as per your suggestion to double the first dose.
All visible signs of parasitic infection is gone.

Also, there was a bit <.25 Ammonia but I added stability to the tank

On 5/16 dosed 12 g CP after 30G water change
Removed one dead shrimp

5/18 removed second dead shrimp

5/19 Ammo .5 Nitri 0 Nitra 5
Dosed seachem stability

5/21 dosed 12g CP after 30G water change

5/26 Ammo 0 Nitri 0 Nitra 0

5/27 dosed 12.2 g CP after 30 G water change

6/5 60G water change, added poly filter, enabled skimming

6/14 30 G water change. Several fish missing (presumed dead under rocks) including angel, 6 Chromises, 4 cardinals)

6/21 30G water change, removed poly filter, moved coral back to display tank

6/22 noticed bubble corals not doing well. Noticed ich on Foxface Lo (again)

6.23 bubble coral dead, several other coral dead.

6/21 almost all coral, including mushrooms dead. Foxface with cloudy eyes and noticeable white spot.
As things stand today, most of the coral in the DT has died in the short time since I put it back. I have also lost my last cardinal and my Foxface is not doing so well.

I hope this gives you the information you need to advise me further. I am hopeful that I can use the CP in food treatment and add some coral and inverts to the tank slowly over time.

Brand is OK, but they are too expensive.

I agree the CP was not removed sufficiently before the corals went back. I would have advised both activated carbon and something like ROWAphos, a phosphate remover, being used in a canister filter for at least a week before ‘trying’ ONE coral in the system. If the one coral was OK, then the rest could have been returned to the DT. It was plainly too much moved too fast and not using these two chemical filtration aspects that caused the loss of the corals. I think the evidence speaks for itself between the two tanks, as algae returned to one treated tank simply because the CP had dissipated (as I understand it), but not so in the big tank.  I don’t think any tank should be maintained without activated carbon and a very good phosphate remover.

The biggest problem is this malady can sit dormant for about two months, sometimes more in the system where zooxanthellae corals have been moved as the net or even they in the liquid that surrounds them contain the parasite from the infected tank. So while treating the main tank successfully, the parasite can be reintroduced with the water/animals from the holding tank.

I also think the lack of dissolved oxygen might have helped with the fish loss, as the algae die-off and lack of protein skimming impacted its level. Aerators would have helped, even though they are somewhat messy. Shrimp are very sensitive to magnesium level, and if not being maintained at what’s needed for your specific gravity, they will perish.

As for the Foxface, if the tank has no corals, retreat. If wanting to put it in a food, try following the directions in the book, as that is still the only instance I know of where it was tried successfully. There has been some that said they are going to try it, but never got back to me. What can I say! If you do, let me know your step by step procedure, as I’m trying to keep track of all uses of CP, at least those that contact me. But I will say, you’re involvement has been a little different, as you moved all corals out and treated the main tank. But the time periods between additional CP adds could have been slightly longer – not six days, but 7 to 10 days, preferably 10. And putting anything live back in the tank that was removed, and not kept in quarantine for a couple months, can proved problematic. This darn pest can exist dormant for longer times than most generally think! Even a net used between tanks can transmit the dam thing!

I’m not sure if this is helpful, but…(I’m also going to run your letter by some friends who have used CP very successfully to see their thoughts.)
Bob

OK, Bob … here is the plan …

I have only 5 coral left. They are in an established 75 Gallon system that is fish fallow by themselves to see if they live or die. This is the other system that was treated but is now growing algae. These are the ones that survived (so far) a one week exposure to unknown levels of CP.

The only thing remaining in the DT is fish. I have added some additional so that I have something to look at  for the next couple months while treating. I added the new fish with the understanding that they are being treated whether or not they have anything parasitic and you are not quite close enough to drive here and slap me <grin>.

The survivors:
1 Pearly Jawfish
2 Red Firefish
3 black perculas
1 Foxface Lo (This is the guy that is showing signs of Crypt again)
1 Yellow Goby

The new additions:

11 Green Chromis
6 Banggai Cardinals
1 Eight Line Wrasse

Ensured no other inverts (Dead or alive) are in 300 G DT

Water parameters are 0 for ammo, nitrite, and nitrate. SG is at 1.024.

Today, I have begun the regimen again by dosing 24G of CP. I have turned off the skimmer.

I am assuming the phosphate remover and carbon you referred to should NOT be used until it is time to remove the medication.

Also, please enlighten me as to why the length of time between treatments is helpful.

Thanks, as always, for your help!

OK, you added new fish and began a new cycle of treatment. Some people get away with a 28 day treatment cycle, but a 40 day cycle seems to be better – what can I say but the results of what I have. So go 10 days between on-going additions. Stay with the minor water changes when doing so. The reason I mentioned dissolved oxygen being low was because of the algae die-off and the stopping of the skimmer. Both add O2 to the water, but now were either dead or not being used. And since you now increased the bioload, having one or two aerators going while the DT undergoes treatment will help this aspect. And no, CP does not affect the level of the O2.

And suggest you get a large canister filter, possibly the biggest Fluval, as I find that brand exceptionally good and long lasting, and using activated carbon and a good brand phosphate remover when the treatment is finished. Then its one coral at a time after that as already explained.

- Bob