Hi Bob –

Following up and asking for your assistance again:

I have completed the process following your instructions. I ran the skimmer and poly filter for about 3 weeks following the final treatment.

During the course of treatment, I lost numerous fish and my shrimps for unknown reasons. I also lost some coral due to the quarantine cycle process. However, I stayed on course.

I put the my surviving coral (from my QT) back into the main DT after the 3 week polyfilter period. Also, I have slowly added MH lighting at 1 hour per day … leaving the actinic on for about 14 hours each day so as not to shock the coral. Now, most of the corals, including 2 bubbles, a frogspawn, open brain, plate coral, and several others have died within a few days. Just seemed to melt and slime away. Should I also be running activated carbon? Any ideas on the most likely cause of death?
Continue reading…

Porcupine Puffer

The Volitans Lionfish and our new friend have expired, less than a week after Smiley, a Porcupine Puffer, was added to the tank. Hard lesson reinforcing the need for quarantine.

This tank is currently fallow and being treated with Chloroquine Phosphate concurrent with the treatment of the 300 Gallon Reef.

In researching the best possible treatment for the tanks parasitic infestation, Bob Goemans has been kind enough to offer his advice to my specific situation:

My text is below and his suggestions are in blue:

Hi Bob -

Thank you for your quick response. I am treating my 300 gallon reef for ich. I cannot catch all of the fish as some of them scurry through the sand when I try. So, I am quarantining the invertebrates and treating the DT. I have the book referenced below and am prepared, with the powder, to treat at 40mg/gallon (12 grams for the 300 Gallon Tank) for 10 days. My questions are primarily related to what to do at the end of 10 days, such as using water changes and/or carbon to remove the chemical. And, how soon may I add the coral back?

Thanks again for your great efforts in the hobby!

- Kevin

Hi Kevin,
There is a treatment mentioned in the book that has allowed leaving the inverts in the aquarium. Have you read that?

As for treatment, maintain proper specific gravity (1.024 – 26) and recommend an initial 20 mg/l, so that’s twice the amount you’re planning on. Thereafter, a 10mg/l dosage every 7 – 10 days for the next three treatments. (total of 4 treatments) Of course, during treatment, any phosphate removing product (CP will kill-off any algae) should be discontinued, as should activated carbon and/or ozone and skimming/UV. Once treatments are concluded, those products/devices and/or Poly-Filters can be used as needed.

As for water changes, a small change (20 gallons in your size aqu.) between each additional treatment is thought helpful, and also at the end of treatment. Otherwise, CP will be removed by the media mentioned above.

Keep me informed, and what city do you live in, as I’m tracking all CP data.
Hope this helps,
Bob

I am in Las Vegas, Nevada.

I have already quarantined my coral and all of the snails and crabs that I could catch. Surely, there is quite a bit more in the rock and sand. I am hoping that I will not have a toxic ammonia issue based on the dye off.

The method you are referring to in the book is about using the CP in food, right? If so, I did consider this but decided to treat the entire tank. I am actually treating 2 tanks, the 300G and a 60G that was the initial breeding ground. The 60 gallon tank is fallow, as well. (I moved a Powder Blue Tang from the 60 to the 300 and a week later lost my Volitans Lion and Porcupine Puffer to ich from the 60G Tank. Then, surprise, it showed up fierce in the 300 Gallon tank).

I have treated using the 10mg/l dose recommended in the book and was under the impression that this was the best method. Based on your suggestion below, would you recommend that I purchase more and increase the dose? Does your current data indicate that I will have issues with die-off from my live rock and sand?

Hi Kevin,
Lost Wages! You’re right next door to me here in Tucson. Post away, as helping others is what I’m about! What’s your blog?

Yes, the treat food method does work as on-going data has shown, but in some ways its more time consuming to apply.

And yes, following data has shown its best to up the initial treatment level.

Also, crustaceans don’t seem to be effected by CP, nor does the bacteria in the sandbed. That’s why its so much better than copper.

If more CP is needed, try:
Fishman Chemicals
David Fishman, president
215 Ojibway Ave.
Tavernier, FL 33070
ph: (305) 852-6121
fax: (305) 852-6272

David’s email:
sales@fishchemicals.com

Website:
www.fishchemical.com

He only sells wholesale, so maybe a local shop will have to purchase it for you.
Hope this helps,
Bob

As such, I have changed course and will be following these suggestions. More to come!

Subject: Chloroquine Phosphate and treating Display Tank

(WWM Comments in Blue)

Hi Bob and Crew -
<Kevin>
I spend at least 8-10 hours per week reading on your site and absolutely love and appreciate all of the great advice. I have only been in the hobby for about 6 months and already have a 300 Gallon Reef, a 60 Gallon FOWLR, and a 34 Gallon Species with a Carpet Anemone and one False Percula. You helped me identify a Nudibranch about a month ago and I have since invested in another 30 gallon tank for quarantine and treatment.

However, like many of your readers, I was devastatingly delinquent in adding the quarantine tank. So, today I write you regarding my 300 Gallon Reef System. I have spend many hours reading on your site about Crypto and other parasites and have recently added a Powder Blue Tang from my 60 Gallon to the 300 Gallon reef system. A week later, I lost my Puffer and Volitans Lion in the 60 gallon tank to Ich. Now, the Powder Blue Tang is showing signs of Ich and has evidently spread the love. My 5″ Foxface Lo is also exhibiting signs of ‘Black Ich’.

<This, as you likely are aware, is not “that” deleterious>
I know that the drill is to capture and treat all of the fish. This is not possible in this tank. Even if I were to remove all the rock, many of the fishes would hide in the substrate,

<Mmm, they can be sand-sifted out>
etc. However, last night I ran across a post where I inferred that treating the display tank is better than nothing at all. I am afraid that this will be my only option. So, my plan is as follows:

1) Remove all of my Coral and place in a large quarantine tank
2) I have ordered Chloroquine Phosphate based on recommendation by WWM and the book “The Marine Fish Health & Feeding Handbook” This is truly the least lethal medication for the fish and the best for a display, right?

<Currently likely the most useful for Protozoans, including Amyloodinium>
3) I will remove as many of my snails and crabs as possible

<Mmm… this antimalarial (Aralen) is quite toxic to a range of invertebrates… and there are, assuredly, a huge mix of these in and about your rock, substrate… These may be killed (along with any algae), resulting in a toxic cascade effect… Again, it would be much BETTER to remove the fishes, treat them elsewhere>

4) I will treat the display tank for 10 days with 40mg per gallon of Chloroquine Phosphate

My question is, at the end of this treatment, assuming all of the fish look fine:
1) How long do I wait to add the coral and inverts back
<Three weeks or so>
2) Do I change 50% water and add carbon to rid the Chloroquine? Is this sufficient?
<Activated carbon and Polyfilter should do it>
3) I believe that I have read in several places that the necessary bacteria should not be affected by this treatment, is this still your experience?
<Yes… however… the above reference…>
Is there anything that I have overlooked that may cause me problems either immediately; or, long term?
<Turn off your skimmer, and UV, remove any other chemical filtrants…>
Thank you very much for all of your help!
- Kevin
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

I left out my water parameters, etc:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate less than 5
SG 1.027
PH 8.3
<These are fine. I’d like to add the possibility of your delivering the CP via foods… One formula calls for 3.7 grams of CP dissolved in a gel powder mix of 300 grams… this mixed with water, foods… less toxic to non-targeted “other” life. BobF>